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virtuality · 2010-02-20 02:19:42

Hi, maya fur wont render properly in 3delight. Using 3delight for maya 5.0.

3delight vs. maya software.

pberto · 2010-02-20 06:05:19

looks like you didn't bake the maps.

virtuality · 2010-02-20 12:53:01

Hi, that isn't the issue unfortunately, I baked the map =/.. i think? when i went into the script editor it said nothing after baking.

All I have to do is go into the fur descript and hit bake right, there are no previous or after steps to baking a map?

Last edited by virtuality (2010-02-20 13:02:59)

eddgarpv · 2010-02-20 13:16:26

Maybe it's more like this http://www.3delight.com/en/modules/PunB … hp?id=1585 and clumping frequencies?

virtuality · 2010-02-20 14:14:24

Relevant settings:
Clumping: 0
Clumping Frequency: 5
Clump Shape: 0

Frequency doesn't do anything if clumping is on 0 right? if so probably not the problem, sigh =/

pberto · 2010-02-20 22:18:49

I don't think it's clumping. It's regrading the orientation of fur. See the first image: the fur is always orthonormal to the surface as if parameters like inclination / roll / polar are not evaluated. Make sure they are baked.

virtuality · 2010-02-20 23:49:23

They are baked... at least I'm kinda sure they are =/

Here's my scene file, if you'd be so kind :)
http://senduit.com/a1f28f

Just made a new scene with a sphere, baked the maps, and it still occurs. :/

Last edited by virtuality (2010-02-20 23:56:19)

virtuality · 2010-02-22 14:26:55

still desperately in need of help.. anyone? :/

maxime · 2010-02-22 17:41:42

I'll have a look as soon as senduit.com decides to start the download...

maxime · 2010-02-22 19:14:07

A few things I encountered with your sample scene:
- There are two fur feedback nodes named "polySurface3_FurFeedbackShape" (parented under differently named group nodes) that produce fur on the same geometry. I had to rename one for 3dfm not to produce an error.
- 3dfm is not interpreting the "Attraction" fur description attribute correctly. An "Attraction" of 1 makes the fur attractor have too much influence compared to the Maya software rendering. Trying lowering the attraction value to see if you can have a more pleasing result.
- I would suggest that you try lowering the number of segments on both fur description; 40 segments is a lot for RenderMan curves (and probably way too high unless you intend to have a lot of scraggle).

virtuality · 2010-02-22 21:24:52

Hello :)

Thank you for the help, I really appreciate it. Unfortunately, after trying everything in your post, the results between 3delight and maya software still differ immensely, although it's a bit better. The quality I'm getting from 3delight is nothing compared to maya software, so something is still wrong. I've tried playing with all the mentioned settings and nothing is helping any further.

Sorry about the problem with senduit, never had issues in the past with them.

lazzhar · 2010-02-22 22:59:22

I just painted new baldness and direction just to show it works.
I find Maya fur system not that easy to handle. You have to keep checking the fur files, deleting them sometimes, and save the whole scene and reload it to get the baked maps updated.
Could you share a simpler file like a sphere you mentioned it didn't work for you?

virtuality · 2010-02-23 00:54:14

Hi there,

No real need to share a scene (or am i wrong?), just going to new scene, make a poly sphere, attach fur descript, bake, render, and it's already broken.

lazzhar · 2010-02-23 01:34:18

I did try as you suggested. It just works.
One thing that might help is that I bake each map separately rather than bake all in one go.
Also you might one to paint/retouch the baked map in photoshop rather than using maya .

virtuality · 2010-02-23 10:47:47

Ok here's something that's weird. I just made a fur sphere again, and when I clicked bake nothing is happening whatsoever in the script editor, it's as if I'm not even pushing the button.

I do have a project set, I'm looking at the directory now, and the folder 'furAttrMap' is empty.

Looks like the problem might just be my lack of knowledge, how do I bake the fur maps to that directory?

It's worth noting that my original scene has these maps baked to the directory. :/

Sorry if it's just my being dumb that's causing it, I'd hate to be wasting people's time, but I really am trying to learn.

I think there's somewhere I'm meant to set where it bakes the map to, but I can't find it. :/

Last edited by virtuality (2010-02-23 10:57:31)

lazzhar · 2010-02-23 22:12:33

Hi,
It's not you, its Maya's fault.
I'm confirming that Maya Fur behavior is weird.
Sometimes you have to close your scene and Maya as well and start over to see those files showing up.

pberto · 2010-02-24 00:31:54

Maya Fur is just crap, it's not your fault.
If you are stuck with Maya (sorry dude) I suggest to search for alternatives, eg Shave.

In softimage I don't really have experience with their Hair stuff, but it will most likely be better than maya fur. Look also into ICE strands which are pretty awesome dynamic wise. The best toolset in the market for fur is in Houdini (both from the modeling/styling and shading point of view). In all these solutions you can render with 3delight.

P.

Last edited by pberto (2010-02-24 00:32:39)

lazzhar · 2010-02-24 07:07:24

pberto wrote:
In softimage I don't really have experience with their Hair stuff, but it will most likely be better than maya fur. ..

P.

XSI's Hair is just Shave &Haircut.

I find it in Maya very slow in export while Maya fur is super fast.

virtuality · 2010-02-24 10:48:56

I'm in school, we use maya, not allowed to use shave and a haircut, not allowed to use houdini etc, actually not even allowed to use anything but software renderer - the reason I want 3delight working is because I'm using fur for personal projects, we can't use the render farm for personal projects, so I have to render from home, and 3delight is so much faster.

So, if this doesn't work, the worst case scenario is that I have horrible render times, meaning I have less option for tweaking the fur, etc.

That's why I really need this working, so I can actually test my results in a more practical way.

The files for that sphere eventually showed up and the problems still continued. Is there really nothing I can do?

Thanks everyone for your help.

Last edited by virtuality (2010-02-24 10:50:21)

maxime · 2010-02-24 11:48:11

virtuality wrote:
Hi there,

No real need to share a scene (or am i wrong?), just going to new scene, make a poly sphere, attach fur descript, bake, render, and it's already broken.

I missed this post, sorry. But something as simple as this above ought to work. Could you explain what you mean by "it's already broken"? You get no fur at all in the 3dfm rendering? You get fur in the 3dfm rendering but its position / orientation / length is significantly different than Maya? Or the hair strands are a fair approximation of the maya rendering but they are shaded differently?

virtuality · 2010-02-24 12:18:59

Hi Maxime,

By it's already broken - I mean that its position orientation / length is significantly different than maya.

But... it didn't use to render the fur at all, but I did a forum search and in a previous thread someone was told to add '/attribute/procedural/reentrant 0' to their rendermn.ini file, which made it render. But badly. I should of remembered this earlier and told you, I apologize, could it be the issue?

For the record, using 3delight for maya 5.0.

maxime · 2010-02-24 13:08:10

The reentrant setting should do the trick, but you can always check if the results are different by setting the "number of CPUs" attribute in your render pass (in the "advanced" frame layout) to 1.

What maya version are you using and on what platform?

If you create a poly sphere, then go in "Fur -> Attach Fur Description -> New", then try to render that with both 3delight and maya, how do the rendering compare?

pberto · 2010-02-24 17:14:01

virtuality wrote:
I'm in school, we use maya, not allowed to use shave and a haircut, not allowed to use houdini etc, actually not even allowed to use anything but software renderer

sounds more like a jail than a school... ;)

- the reason I want 3delight working is because I'm using fur for personal projects, we can't use the render farm for personal projects, so I have to render from home, and 3delight is so much faster.

So, if this doesn't work, the worst case scenario is that I have horrible render times, meaning I have less option for tweaking the fur, etc.
That's why I really need this working, so I can actually test my results in a more practical way.

Your idea is correct.
3delight is the way to go.

Maya is the source of most of the problems: MayaFur has no API so for a developer is not so straight forward to export all the data in a 100% matching style. If I remember well fur was developed outside and acquired. I bet one beer whoever managed the deal forgot to tell them it should have made as open as possible.

pberto · 2010-02-24 17:20:29

XSI's Hair is just Shave &Haircut.

Ah, thanks for this - I was not sure of that hence why I did not mention myself.
What is your experience in XSI with it? Good or bad?

I find it in Maya very slow in export while Maya fur is super fast.

You mean the on-the-fly exporter or the rib exporter (shavewriterib)?

Most of the times with both too many segments are set by default to overcome the crappy look of mental delay hair geometry. In shave for example there is this weird concept of passes that increments the amount of hairs aswell as changes the shading (opacity) of hair. A very weird system.

ADSK should definitely refresh their fur/hair technology with something more modern. Houdini is the way to go if you expect a package to provide a solid solution. Otherwise as most of the studio do, develop your own hair/fur pipeline.

p

eddgarpv · 2010-02-24 17:46:22

Well, if you're in jail you only have maya fur. I've used shave a couple of times and it wasn't the best experience: using mental ray the first time and maya software the second time to avoid the bugs with mr. Unfortunately shave was buggy too and with that version (I think it was maya 6.5) the software renderer was doing funny things. Never found a workaround and some shots were done using maya fur only.

Now I usually start tweaking my fur with previews with 3delight to avoid this problem. Maybe I should get a demo to see what's new, but I don't think I could use it in production yet (yes, it was very traumatic).

Anyway, while something better comes to maya, you better get used to do multiple fur descriptions and preview every one of them with 3delight.

:/

Forums

#1 2010-02-20 02:19:42

maya fur wont render properly in 3delight

#2 2010-02-20 06:05:19

Re: maya fur wont render properly in 3delight

#3 2010-02-20 12:53:01

Re: maya fur wont render properly in 3delight

#4 2010-02-20 13:16:26

Re: maya fur wont render properly in 3delight

#5 2010-02-20 14:14:24

Re: maya fur wont render properly in 3delight

#6 2010-02-20 22:18:49

Re: maya fur wont render properly in 3delight

#7 2010-02-20 23:49:23

Re: maya fur wont render properly in 3delight

#8 2010-02-22 14:26:55

Re: maya fur wont render properly in 3delight

#9 2010-02-22 17:41:42

Re: maya fur wont render properly in 3delight

#10 2010-02-22 19:14:07

Re: maya fur wont render properly in 3delight

#11 2010-02-22 21:24:52

Re: maya fur wont render properly in 3delight

#12 2010-02-22 22:59:22

Re: maya fur wont render properly in 3delight

#13 2010-02-23 00:54:14

Re: maya fur wont render properly in 3delight

#14 2010-02-23 01:34:18

Re: maya fur wont render properly in 3delight

#15 2010-02-23 10:47:47

Re: maya fur wont render properly in 3delight

#16 2010-02-23 22:12:33

Re: maya fur wont render properly in 3delight

#17 2010-02-24 00:31:54

Re: maya fur wont render properly in 3delight

#18 2010-02-24 07:07:24

Re: maya fur wont render properly in 3delight

pberto wrote:

#19 2010-02-24 10:48:56

Re: maya fur wont render properly in 3delight

#20 2010-02-24 11:48:11

Re: maya fur wont render properly in 3delight

virtuality wrote:

#21 2010-02-24 12:18:59

Re: maya fur wont render properly in 3delight

#22 2010-02-24 13:08:10

Re: maya fur wont render properly in 3delight

#23 2010-02-24 17:14:01

Re: maya fur wont render properly in 3delight

virtuality wrote:

#24 2010-02-24 17:20:29

Re: maya fur wont render properly in 3delight

#25 2010-02-24 17:46:22

Re: maya fur wont render properly in 3delight

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